full interview
Rocky, within the industry, what's the ideal distribution? Describe it for us and then describe what you wanted for 1946, whether that was similar or different. How did it reach audiences? What has the distribution model looked like to date?
For independent films I would say the gold standard of distribution. I mean, everybody dreams of getting global international recognition on a major platform like Netflix, Hulu, Paramount, and the like. Um, but getting on those platforms isn't as easy as everybody thinks. And so we had to learn the hard way that if we aren't going to achieve that ultimate goal, how are we going to get this film out to the people that need to see it - and on a global scale?
1946’s distribution model has been a little unusual, but also wonderful. We took an independent approach when we weren't able to engage with the proper agency that would be able to hit that international goal. And all the other agents we were approaching wanted to own the film for 20 years. So we did a theatrical release with our executive producer’s support, and that afforded us an opportunity to be recognized by major institutions like the Academy Awards and being long listed there. From there, we just did a DIY approach. We were approached by eventive.org, which is the leading platform for film festival distribution and they let me know, “Hey, your film is selling at the film festivals, you can do this on your own.” And we took their advice and we did, and we were able to then pay our bills for the theatrical release. And since then we've grossed over a hundred thousand dollars. We did that in six months, actually.
You said at one point you were a little naive going into distribution. Say more about that.
Yeah, so going into distribution, and especially with the content of the film, I really believed that this would be a no-brainer for international global Netflix. You know, the whole nine, the Bible impacts the entire world, whether you're religious or not. And our approach in the film was non-threatening. But I guess I was a little naive in the sense that I learned social justice films aren't really what the content streamers want. And so I had to kind of take a step back. It was a rude awakening for me, but I didn't let it discourage us.
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What most surprised you about that journey? What weren't you expecting when you dropped the film?
What was most surprising to me is that at our world premiere - Doc NYC - we sold more tickets and we still have sold more tickets than any film festival in their entire history. And the head of IFC at the time came down and shook my hand, surprised like, “How are you selling 500 tickets a day?” And I'm like, “We have a social media video that went viral.” You know, it was no big deal to me. Even IFC watched the film and they said, “We love the film, but we can't help you.” And it was one after one after one of major distributors and major agencies that said, love the film can't help you. And uh, that was a little surprising.
Have you always been a person who just doesn't hear no?
I don't really take no for an answer. You have to be a little crazy to do a film like this. A documentary film that has social justice impact and trying to raise money to do something like this. And so going in, I knew that this was just all go, go, go. And no, no, no is not an option. And so anytime I would hear a no, I was like, great, at least I know where you stand and now I can move on.
Tell us about your experience at film festivals. It doesn’t sound like there were very many no’s on that circuit.
The film festival experience was really fantastic. When we first entered our world premier at DOC NYC we were excited to share the film. We knew we had a good film, but that's us, you know? We weren't really sure how the audiences were gonna respond to it. And once we won our first audience award at Doc NYC, I was like, okay, that's a little validating. I mean, we've won now 25 audience awards in a festival year. And coming off of that, you know, one after the other, it was like, okay, audiences love this film. So as we continue to get no’s from the sales agents I’m they're completely missing out. Because we built this film for the audience, with the audience, and they are loving it. So how can we get this out? It was just continued motivation for me to find alternative ways.
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Whatever it is, the way you tell your story online can make all the difference.
Looking back at this process. When did you feel the least hopeful?
I don't think I ever, I don't think I ever had any loss of hope during this entire process, which has been pretty phenomenal and another testimony to why the film has been so successful. If you are feeling hopeless and you don't know where to go - which it happens - I mean, you know, of course I had moments of frustration, which I think is a different feeling, but I never lost hope because I believe in it so much.I wouldn't have started it if I didn't believe in it and so much.
Where did you take the film after your festival run wrapped up?
Toward the end of our festival season in’ 23 that's when we made the decision to do our own theatrical release and work towards getting recognition amongst peers. If we can get the right peer in the film industry to see it, hopefully we can hit those global distribution goals that we wanted.
How did you fundraise for the theatrical release?
You know, trying to find all this money and then going back to our donors and asking for more money is always difficult. So we didn't want to ask for more money. We wanted to work with a partnership. Our theatrical run was around $75,000. That included renting theaters in New York City, in London, and in Los Angeles. But our biggest line item was our publicity. We spent $52,000 on 42 West, which is a fantastic publicist company, and we're so grateful that they represented us. So for the theatrical release, we actually did a loan. We called our top donors - Todd and Theresa Silver - who have been fantastic and said, look, we know we're grossing money at the film festivals. We have the numbers. So I told Todd and Theresa Silver that I would pay them back by February of 2024. And I got the money from them in November of 2023, and we paid them back in February. So we hit our financial goals, we hit the numbers that we needed.
Sometime shortly after the theatrical run it became clear that you weren’t going to get the distribution deal you wanted. Take us back to the moment when you shifted to a DIY distribution model.
It was several months into it when I was just like, “This isn't working. It's not going anywhere. We're not finding the right distributor, so we're just gonna do it.” I just switched gears to working to find alternative distribution options, getting us on Amazon, and then working on impact, which is really the most important thing in the film. Like getting the film to the community, working with the community, providing them more resources and providing them hope.
I'm just thinking about how critical knowing your audience is to any distribution, and I would love if you could talk through how you found your audience. You initially imagined your audience was everyone in the entire world, how did you end up with who your audience actually is today?
This movie clearly impacts the world as I felt so strongly. But there is a niche within that world, and those are the people that I really needed to engage with in order to get this message out. That community was the LGBTQIA+ community, but more specifically, people who have been hurt by the church and then outside of just the queer community their loved ones who might be the oppressors. So I went about working to find that audience. Before going to social media I followed Kathy and Ed to the Queer Christian Fellowship conference. And that's where I met most of the core audience that we needed to partner with and engage with to say, “Hey, I need help making this movie.”
At that first conference, that's where we met Todd and Theresa Silver. There were 1500 people at this conference and thank god we found Todd and Theresa that soon. To make a project like this, it's either time or money. And the fact that we were able to engage with our executive producers that we met so early on made all the difference and really helped us to be able to, from conception to completion, finish the movie in four years for an independent film. That's pretty amazing.
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Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.