Women in politics and a nation’s future

Erin Loos Cutraro Transcript

Sabrina Merage Naim
From Evoke Media I'm Sabrina Merage Naim, with me is Kassia Binkowski, and this is Breaking Glass - a series of conversations with women around the world who are shattering glass ceilings and challenging social norms. They are audacious, gutsy, and their stories are echoed across borders and generations in a rallying cry that is changing the narrative for women everywhere. Today, we're speaking with Erin Loos Cutraro, the founder and CEO of She Should Run - a nonpartisan nonprofit promoting leadership and encouraging women from all walks of life to run for public office. Erin's been doing this work for 10 years. But it's never been more timely than right now, on inauguration day, when the United States swears in our first female Vice President.

Kassia Binkowski
Sabrina, this is a truly historic moment for our country. But I think it's worth noting that the conversation we're having with Erin today transcends geography. We're talking about why it matters that more women hold the elected office, the subtle but significant ways that women lead differently than men and the systems that can be disrupted when we finally have equal representation.

Sabrina Merage Naim
I can't help but all girls who are witnessing this historic moment who now see themselves in our leadership, who see a path for themselves to one of the highest offices in the land, this conversation is for them, and for women everywhere, who have a fire in their bellies to create a better country for future generations. Take a listen. Erin, thank you so much for joining us on what we feel is such a timely and important topic, women in politics. Thanks for being with us.

Erin Loos Cutraro
Absolutely. Thank you for having me.

Sabrina Merage Naim
Yes, for sure. You know, we we truly just cannot imagine a more timely conversation given the inauguration of America's first female vice president just around the corner. And you founded She Should Run in 2011, to increase the number of women running for public office in the US. But you started your career as a teacher. So what was the catalyst in your life, to move away from teaching in order to lead that effort?

Erin Loos Cutraro
I will save the many minutes of explaining the whole path. But I was in corporate America, and I was volunteering on the side, I was working in organizational learning and development, still doing teaching, I was teaching adults. And I was having a hard time connecting the way that I was when I was teaching young students and so I was really getting my power and purpose from volunteering. And while I was doing that I was increasingly getting pulled into sort of community politics. It wasn't sort of capital P politics at that point. It was it was you know, volunteer opportunities at the very local level. And I had somebody that I really trusted come to me and say, I know this is gonna sound crazy, but there's an opportunity on a statewide campaign. And at this point, it was my home state of Missouri and and they said, I think you'll really like the people. And it's not a high level position, and you're still not qualified to do it - because I had no experience in that world whatsoever. But I went and I met with the campaign manager, and I just fell in love with her and I met with the candidate and the same. And, and it was in that interview process that I had another one of those light bulb moments of realizing something I had never realized before, which was that this in this case, this woman who was running for statewide office cared so deeply about making her state better. In this case, it was a secretary of state role. And she was very interested in safe elections and giving access to as many people as possible to be able to vote and exercise that right. And I thought, oh my goodness, here we are, again, like that lever that you can pull to to make change for so many people. And I was hooked. So when I saw that when I had that moment, and then carry that forward to you know, the work I'm doing now and how I got here and working with women all over the country who are doing just that they are taking that change making fire in the belly they have and they are applying it to change the lives of so many other just magical.

Sabrina Merage Naim
It sounds like it was less of a glaring moment of reckoning and more kind of a search for meaning in your life that ended up having lightbulb moments along the way that led you to where you are but now that you're here I'm sure that the meaning that you're taking from it and the impact that you're having is, I'm assuming more than you even thought going into it more than you would have assumed.

Erin Loos Cutraro
Yeah, most definitely. So, I mean, I think that there are many reasons why I feel energized to get out of bed every day and do this work, but one of them is, even the possibility of being able to help others have their own light bulb moment like that, to change their communities for the better. It was for me a process. And I, and I think that's why, you know, when I stepped into the space, and you know, when I first started working in politics, I was doing so as many people do working on a campaign or, you know, or volunteering on a campaign. And then ultimately, I went and I worked with, and for a number of women who were running a woman who had already made that decision. And, I couldn't see that path, where do you go from there outside of I was hooked. I mean, it was so exciting and inspiring to see all of these individuals who just wanted to give so much back. And eventually, what I saw was I saw an opportunity, I saw an opportunity to fill a need in the landscape that wasn't previously being served. And that is creating that space for women to have their aha moment prior to the point where they need all the other great stuff that they absolutely need, which is like running a campaign once they're on the ballot. But if they don't have that aha moment, first, we're not gonna, we're not going to get there in terms of seeing enough women on the ballot.

Kassia Binkowski
So I think it's it's worth noting that the political climate has changed so dramatically since you founded this. I mean, you started this 10 years ago, long before Trump was elected long before the women's march in DC. How has the organization had to pivot from where you started to where you are today, given the current political climate?

Erin Loos Cutraro
Yeah. So you know, it's so interesting, when we got our start, we were really founded in a place of running a very simple program that was all about asking women to run for office. And it was before connected the way they do online now, and virtual communities were as robust as they are now. And, you know, we were really poking around and researching and trying to figure out something that's incredibly important to me, which is, where is the place we can actually add value? There's, you know, there are a number of great organizations that operate in the space, there are incredible women doing work in this space and men to try to build a diverse government. And so I was really curious as to, you know, what is the what is the solution? We know the problem, but what is the solution that that is going to that is going to offer a new way forward. And that is really going to accelerate what we can accomplish in terms of seeing more women and more women from all walks of life step step forward. So what has changed over the years is, you know, it was 2015. So so just the year prior to, to Trump being elected, that we had been building the very first virtual platform and series of courses, targeting women who have not yet made the decision to run. So we spent a ton of time in the field talking to people who were heavily entrenched people who were completely outside of politics and trying to build something that was super approachable for the woman who was stepping into the space for the first time. We could have not even kind of predicted how important that would have been come the day after the election in 2016. So we had - somewhat hilariously now if I look back on it - built a whole strategic plan around getting 100 women into our program by the end of 2016 when we launched in October of 2016. So if you think back to that time where the surprise election happens, there's a surprise result. And what we had, in the short run community was an explosion into our programs, something that we frankly could not have prepared for, which were 1000s of women that stepped up in a very short period of time to say, "Okay, I have no idea where the hell to start. But this, this makes sense to me. Let me at least consider that." So the pivot for us was really building that platform, but then really quickly, building the infrastructure to support the huge number of women that stepped into the space for the first time and said, "I don't have to look a certain way, I don't have to have a certain background. And look, holy cow, if I look around in this community, there are other women who look just like me."

Sabrina Merage Naim
I think it's important to just highlight what you're saying, which is that women who maybe weren't going to be so interested prior to the 2016 election, we're like, "Oh, hell no!" Right? And and, frankly, on a personal note, it resonates with me a little bit, because I was several months pregnant when we found out about the results of the election, and I was bawling hysterically. "What is it going to be like for me to bring my daughter in to a world where this person is the leader of the free world?" And even just putting politics aside for a second, and political agendas aside, I think the narrative that was happening at that time around women and belittling women, and not even just women in politics, just women in general was something that was so pointed, and so heated, and I would argue, is one of the reasons why women everywhere who maybe weren't as interested in politics decided, "Okay, it's time for me to step up and prove that this is not the narrative that women are going to accept."

Erin Loos Cutraro
Absolutely. And Sabrina, you nailed the experience, your experience of that fear, that feeling of fear of, you know, bringing another person into this world, and not being certain that you can protect that individual in this environment. And what does that look like? That is what we saw with women stepping in. I can say very clearly now, because we have the vantage point, and we have the data set, to be able to say that when the status quo feels harder than the taking the action of putting yourself out to run for office is that exact moment that we see women step up, and those are really hard moments in our country. And you know, we faced a lot of them over the last year. And, and the results of that I always, I'm always with caution sharing I don't want to call it a silver lining, because I don't want women to be in this position. But we have continued to see just these incredible individuals who are in the hardest of situations, say, "Okay, this is not okay, for me, this is not okay for my daughter, this is not okay for my family, my community, this is what I'm gonna do about it. I'm gonna put myself out there. I have no idea what this looks like, tell me what this looks like."

Sabrina Merage Naim
Now you have 25,000 members all over the country who participate in webinars and training programs and take advantage of the tools that you offer and are creating community and encouraging local female leaders to run for office. What have been some of your biggest wins and accomplished accomplishments along the way?

Erin Loos Cutraro
I think one of the biggest wins has been a combination of discipline, and nimbleness that is really what what our organization is about. And that is, I say that because we are in we are a very non traditional political organization, we are in fact much closer to leadership than we are to politics. We know it is our mission to create a space that is highly approachable for women and sometimes communities of women who it's hardest to reach. So we often get pulled because of a national narrative, we get pulled into something that can feel, you know, or pushed or encouraged to think about, "Oh, but how are you working with the women on the ballot? How are you supporting these women who are that are now?" And we have to stay very disciplined to say, look, that is incredibly important work. And there are so many incredible organizations doing that work. We are going to continue operating in this space of discovery, which by the way, is completely uncharted territory. No one other organization is operating and what can be like this mushy space of how do we help women have their aha moments? Well, guess what if women aren't having their aha moments, they are not going to consider running for office. So I consider it a huge win, that we have stayed if anything, we have narrowed our focus into this place of saying Nope. We're seeing incredible success of, of creating a space that women feel safe to step into, in, in, in that I'm not sure that I'm not sure if I want to do this, but I want to peek behind the curtain and maybe I'm not going to sign up for that fundraising training, go to that _____ party, you know, formal thing that's happening, because I'm not ready for that yet. But I know I want to do good. And we want the chance - I consider it a gift - that we have the chance to make that case to these women. So so that is a huge win. I think a second huge win for us is that kind of rooted in, I guess, a little bit interesting to be started in this place of talking about my background, and like working in learning organizations. I remain committed to having a culture, both internal to the organization and external that we are still running, we do not have the answers. The political landscape is shifting beneath our feet every single day. And our organization is there to say, Okay, how can we better serve the women we are trying to reach? And that is not something that you can put on a piece of paper and call it done. It's something that is developing, as we go as we learn more, right? We serve women from all walks of life. And guess what, they're all different. They all have different things that make them tick, different challenges

Sabrina Merage Naim
And different political parties, you have to be bipartisan, you have to be the group that can provide resources and a platform, no matter the politics, no matter your party lines.

Erin Loos Cutraro
Absolutely.

Kassia Binkowski
Erin you're talking about this political landscape kind of changing under your feet, which is so true. What do you see as the most critical skills that the women coming up through your program need to walk away with in order to, you know, for those who choose to move forward with campaigns or to run? What what do they need? What do you see as the most critical?

Erin Loos Cutraro
Yeah, I mean, this is where I am a 100% optimist about what is changing, and what will be the future of our democracy. And that is, it is not about having a specific background, or coming from a specific network, you know, we are racing now to catch up with the need that exists for our government to be as complex as the individuals it serves. And so one thing that we come back to often and you'll see this rooted in a lot of the content and programs that we offer is that we tell women, if you care, you're qualified. If you care, you are qualified. That is important. And one of our key offerings kind of a bread and butter course and series of content that we put out around it and webinars that we've had around it is around finding your why, what is that thing? What is that fire in the belly that is going to make you want to get out of bed every day. And do the often part time highly underpaid, or perhaps volunteer work in some of these very local offices that you know, leadership roles around our country, what's going to make you want to do that you have to know what that thing is, that is the dragon you want to slay or the you know, the problem you want to solve. If you know that anything is possible, you can learn all the things, all the things that you need to learn, you can learn how to raise money, you can learn how to put together a team. But if you're not true in in what that thing is, it's going to keep you going every day, the rest of those things are going to be really difficult.

Sabrina Merage Naim
You mentioned that you're an optimist. And I think that's probably so important for these women who are going to be kind of dredging through the mud. But how do you instill that, for people who, you know, have the fire in their belly, who knows what their why is, but are still not prepared to deal with the red tape and bureaucracy and hitting your head against the wall. That really is the US political system?

Erin Loos Cutraro
That is a very real challenge. And I think you know, to call out to it's more of a challenge for for communities of color. So you know, women who are coming to the table, often without the support systems without the the same number of role models to look to and to say this is how you get it done. And in a lot of ways, it can feel very, very lonely. So what we find is the most important sort of role that we can play is in community. It is not about a singular person having all of the answers. It's about not feeling alone. It's about saying, "Okay, let me look at I have a fire in my belly, and I want to do this, but I have zero support system. And the path is really unclear. So let me look at not just one woman who's done it," maybe she's extraordinary, by the way, because we love to talk about the extraordinary women. But in fact, you know, there are a whole lot of women that that that that are those everyday women who are getting it done, who we might not point to right away, but I think it's in the variety it's seeing, okay, she did it this way, she did it that way. These women look like me, it is so important to see representation, your see somebody who looks like you and hear from them, to hear somebody to see somebody, and this is the value to and the She Should Run community who doesn't look like you and doesn't sound like you to hear that perspective as well to put that together, and then sit in the in and build if necessary, that confidence that it takes to say, "Okay, I'm gonna do it."

Kassia Binkowski
I just want to acknowledge the the kind of female lens through which you've approached this design and kind of the program. Because I mean, the themes that you're talking about this, this notion of kind of building programs with empathy to each user's or participant's unique situation or context, to kind of creating community and knowing that that's what women want. And that's what they're looking for. And that's what's going to lead to solution. Like all of that feels subtly different and very feminine.

Erin Loos Cutraro
Ah, yes, I appreciate that call out. And, you know, it's something that we talk about often with sort of a value that women bring, I mean, look no further than right now. There's been all these interesting, recent reports released around how and why why there is not only a perception, but it there is backup and data that women are really strong and sometimes better leaders in crisis. And that is, that is because there is an empathy piece there. There's a connection with people. There's a compassion and ability to listen, look, not every woman is going to be the same on this. But it is a true I think, value that women bring to the table and leadership. I appreciate the call out and the program design.

Sabrina Merage Naim
Yeah. And I think that it is exactly why you and so many are fighting the good fight to have equal representation beyond just for the sake of equal representation, right? The reason why it matters so much that more women hold public office and that more women are represented in office is not just so that we have numbers that we can point to. It's that there are unique qualities and attributes that women bring to leadership positions that are just different and important.

Erin Loos Cutraro
That's right. That's right. And, you know, I'll add to that, that, you know, you look now at these really devastating reports about the way that women are stepping out of the job force right now and being forced to do so. I in that, in sort of picking, picking myself up from the sadness, and I'm an extreme feeler like the sadness of seeing the step back that we're taking and the hardship that women are facing. I have I have these moments where I go, Oh, my goodness. And this is exactly why there is urgency around getting women into these elected roles that ultimately are going to have to build the policies that are going to pull us out of this. And and if those women are not in the rooms where the decisions are being made, the policies aren't going to make sense for them because their experiences are unique. And we're missing the opportunity to bring the way that they policymake, the compassion that they bring to that, the collaboration that they bring to that, the effectiveness that comes from that we're missing that opportunity. I just truly believe that, you know, our society can't thrive unless we have that and so, so the urgency is real, too.

Kassia Binkowski
And what you're talking about is such a long game, I mean, seeing the need to fill that funnel to put these women into office, you know, is a long process. Let's talk about that for a second. I mean, what are the unique barriers that women face when they're running? You know, we're really curious about the double standards that women have to endure and are subject to.

Erin Loos Cutraro
Absolutely. So you know, the the challenges, the sort of nuance of the challenges look different. I think every year, they look a little different. But there are some themes that are pretty tried and true one, and it's and it's really where she should run is rooted is that women are still less likely - we love to jump over this point, but it is real - women are still less likely to be encouraged and recruited to serve an elected office at all levels. And this starts with girls. It starts with what girls see how girls are encouraged by family members, what culture tells girls are possible. And then and then transfers forward to what we see in women, which is an overall hesitation around feeling and a belief that, that that a woman has what it takes. This questioning of qualifications, this feeling that I have to have all the answers to do this. So I'm going to hold back right now, when the guys are saying like, oh, put me in, I got this, I know how to do they don't know how to do this, they don't know how to do it anymore, then then that woman who's saying, I have more research to do I have, you know more to figure out. And so we have to keep working on that we have to keep creating the spaces where women can be certain that it's okay to be uncertain. And push forward there. And then and then there's like, on the outside of that too, though the support system has to be there, right? The institutional players have to change how they play the game so that they can see that there's bias and who they're recruiting and that and who they're funding. And, you know, we have to look at how how elections happen. I mean, it's sort of a big topic, but there's a lot of structural issues from the way that we vote for, for example, you know, there's there are, there are other ways ranked choice voting is a great way to show that you can actually bring more diverse candidates see forward. So I think, you know, there are a number of issues, we have to start with making sure that women know what's possible. And then and then showing, you know, those things that are real, and you name some showing that there is a there is a double standard, and we have to be aware of it, and we have to knock it down and call it out. You know, there is a real need for women to in fear around the money associated with politics. If I don't have that built in network, how am I going to do it? I think all these things, though, can be tackled, if we get enough women in the headspace to know that we cannot thrive if they are not in the rooms. And so as a society we all have to step up and support that. It is for the better of not just women it is it is truly the need of all.

Sabrina Merage Naim
you said so many things that I want to double click on. One, one being that the inherent self doubt that women are raised with that kind of society puts on women from families, cultures, whatever, you know, is something that holds women back in so many different arenas. And we just recently had a conversation with Meredith Fineman, who wrote a book called "Brag Better," and it's all about how we need to train ourselves and learn how to how to communicate our accomplishments. And istate fact, right? It's stating fact. It's not about boasting, it's not about ego, it's stating facts, and to build the self confidence to really be able to come to the table and say, even if I don't have all the answers today, I'll learn and I have the ability to get there. And that nobody that's going through this has any more knowledge than I do or is any more capable than I am. To be able to just push yourself beyond those boundaries that doubt put around us. Push yourself beyond that, so that you can get there so that you have, you know, even the first step. And then another thing that you said that I think is really important is just highlighting some of the specifics that women struggle with. Things like building a platform, raising money, enduring the scrutiny that you have to endure to be in a public political position like that and just going back to the money issue for a second. How much harder is it for a woman who's running for public office to raise the funds than it is for a man?

Erin Loos Cutraro
It's harder. No doubt, it's harder. Here's the great news. And I always, always say, like, let's not bury the lede, though, women raise just as much money as men, but they have to work harder to get there. And that is because the old boys club is real, and those support systems and that infrastructure is in place, and at the ready to support more of the same, but it's harder when it's something different. And so I live in the side of saying, okay, we have to imagine what's possible here, though, we have to know the fact the fact is women do raise as much money, yes, we have to work harder. And yes, we all want to get beyond that. But we can do. It can happen. And, and there are I mean, if you just pull out money, I think there are so many interesting elements that are there, you know, the number one sort of fear that that women have, especially in a pandemic is around money, and wealth, and how to survive and how to thrive. And that relationship that we have - which is very different than the relationship that men have with money - plays into how women do or don't step into politics, because money is just a part of how our political system works right now. But I do like to always point out with that, too, you know, there's this interesting thing that we do, when we think about elected offices is that, you know, we think of the highest level office, and there is much to celebrate, by the way, there's so much to celebrate in the election of the first female Vice President. Of course. We want to celebrate that, but we don't want to stop there and imagining what's possible for our communities, there are over 500,000 elected offices in this country, and 99% plus of them are at the local level. And when it comes to raising money for local race, that bar is not nearly as high as you think it is, it's something that absolutely can be done. You know, you may have to raise, depending on the race, a couple $100, a couple $1,000, you know, into bigger dollars, but it is all possible, there is a formula for that.

Kassia Binkowski
So I want to talk about the old boys club for a second here, because, you know, your your work is successful in and you are filling that pipeline. But it can't stop there, which I hear, you know, referencing to again, and again. If we get more women into office, and they just wear the pants suits and play the man's part and play to the old boy club culture that's been established, nothing changes. So what are the issues that we need to rally those women around? What how do we empower them to lead like women, such that we can actually disrupt these systems and create meaningful change?

Erin Loos Cutraro
I think it is about amplifying the amplifying the stories of women who are doing it differently. And celebrating, you know, we often sort of bury what feels like everyday stories of women leading in very different ways and compassionate ways in their communities. We start talking about how women are more empathetic, and people are going to check out and nobody wants to talk about that. When in reality, there are thousands of everyday examples of women making differences in their communities. If that is connecting at a at a really effective level with their constituents. And we sort of bury that and move to the next. And I would say, you know, that is on all of us. So we have to look for these moments, we have to acknowledge that those those moments where a woman is leading differently, it's gonna feel different. And you may actually, and we find that sometimes women don't have they, they sort of want to skip beyond it and say, "Oh, I don't know how I feel about that. I don't know if I like the sound of her voice. I don't know if I'm comfortable with the fact that she's not wearing a pantsuit. She should be wearing a pantsuit." And we have to challenge ourselves and one another to say no, that is where we want to get. We want to get to the place where women are absolutely leading as their authentic selves. And that there is a community of support around that to say this is how this is how you have a representative government. You have a government that looks like it's people, not trying to be something that it's not.

Kassia Binkowski
Do you think that women have an obligation to advance women's issues once they're in office?

Erin Loos Cutraro
That's a great question. So I get this question a lot, because the even the concept of advancing women in elected office can feel polarizing to some. I think that we all have an obligation truly, to advance what is half the population, what issues that matter to what is half the population, but that is not just on women. And that, in fact, we have to be really careful that we don't put, you know, plenty of the firsts in all industries - and this is not this is this is true in politics too - the woman who was placed in the position to be the first there's so much pressure on her shoulders to get it right for all the women. When in reality, we cannot expect that to be true. We have to say, Okay, this is not about her. This is about all of us looking at our population and saying, "Oh, wait, women are 51% of the population. How are they represented in these rooms? How are their issues being being put in the front constantly, when they have been in the back for so long?" So I always flip that and say it it is there is not one way to to lift up women's issues. I mean, I think that's challenging for some, because we want it to look one way. But there are many different ways I believe that that women specifically who were looking to, you know, move forward can come to the table, and can be part of ensuring that women and families and others are all thriving. Amen.

Sabrina Merage Naim
Amen. Speaking of women, leading like women and not trying to fit themselves into the man's role, we are consistently accused of being sensitive and emotional. Does equating criticism with misogyny weaken the position of women, particularly in public office?

Erin Loos Cutraro
I don't believe it does. I, you know, we've done some really interesting and this is a little bit dated of research, but it is it is absolutely still true and shows up in in, in other studies as well around the need to call out double standards when we see them and how it feels like you're sort of whining about it, it feels like is this really helping? Or are we gonna just be lumped together as the victims who are complaining as opposed to bringing solutions forward. The reality is that if we're not calling out that this issue, if you talk about women being too emotional, if we're not calling that out as a problem, and moving forward to talk about whatever the issue is at hand, we're missing an opportunity to signal especially to the next generation that moment where it's like, "No, we see you, we see what you're doing right now. In in trying to belittle a woman for the way that she's leading, when in reality, the way that she's leading is very powerful. And we're gonna, we're gonna call that out, and then we're going to show you how we lead."

Sabrina Merage Naim
So I have a specific example in mind. And I think that it less relates to an issue and more to kind of behavior, which is during the 2016 elections, when there were debates between Hillary Clinton and Trump. Later on, she talked, she wrote in her biography about how he kind of stalked her around the stage with this predatory behavior. But when it comes down to a man and a woman on stage, and a man is using his stature or his, you know, position of power or whatever to intimidate, and then the woman later calls it out as predatory behavior. Do you see that as a weakening her performance during what otherwise was supposed to just be a debate between two candidates on the stage?

Erin Loos Cutraro
Yeah, I absolutely don't see it as weakening her performance. I think we have to name these things when we see them. It is it is an obligation, not just on in that case, not just on her but on others to say "Hell no! This is not okay." Let's shine a light on what just happened. And by the way, and you know, in the example that you shared, not only did she feel uncomfortable in that scenario, but you have an entire giant swath of the population that was feeling that same emotion because what it reminded them of was the way that they felt standing in their boardroom, the week before the way that they felt standing in any room where, where you know, you, you feel that power dynamic happening. And we can't advance as a society if we pretend it's not happening so short, are there always going to be individuals who say it's better to sweep it under the rug? Yes. And that we must move forward and that we do not want to look whiny? Yes, that is always going to exist. The reality is that if we are not naming it, we're not gonna be able to change it.

Kassia Binkowski
So Erin, it's easy to kind of look back on this past election season and see the controversy and the misinformation and the scandal. But I want to highlight some wins. I mean, women are more represented in office and voter turnout than ever before. I'm wondering what tactics you can point to that have been really successful, to propel historically underrepresented women into these positions?

Erin Loos Cutraro
Sure. So it is intention, it is effort, it is years in the making. I mean, there's this reality in, in this work that, you know, you made reference to it being long game, it is painfully long game work. Look at look at the work of Stacey Abrams in the state of Georgia.

Sabrina Merage Naim
What a superstar. Wow.

Erin Loos Cutraro
Right? Ten years, more than ten years, because Stacey Abrams as Stacey Abrams, and the brilliant woman that she is, you know, that was in the making many years before, but that intention, and that, you know, building of trust with communities over time, and that, you know, that that change in effort, it requires the work, it requires the muscle and it requires, unfortunately, the patience to see the result. And so I this is you know, back to my optimism, I look around the corner, I see the women who are coming into the She Should Run community, I know our future is bright. I know what is to come. Now, there is an in between moment that we are in where we all want it to happen faster. But I see, you know, individual communities that are highly underrepresented, being resourced in ways that they never have before. I see even you know, even if you look at it from a political party, there is a there is a real reason, I would even call it a trend yet that more republican women got elected because this is the first election that we've seen it. Let's talk then after the next election cycle, but if the same intention in support exists, we will see that continue, we will see advancements continue. But, you know, I think you can actually even pull that one out as an example there. The intention wasn't there, the support wasn't there prior to recent years, apply a little pressure and look at what you can see. So I see there being only more and sometimes sort of non traditional players stepping into the space to say, "Okay, we have to do better." You know, we came up we came out of, you know, in in recent weeks, the darkest, darkest points for democracy in this country. And from that comes, my hope is more and more hands on deck to that feeling of "Oh, hell no. We will do better."

Sabrina Merage Naim
For reference, Erin is referring to the recent interaction of the Capitol building. And and I just want to go back to highlight what a couple of those wins are. So you mentioned that more republican women are elected to office in this last cycle than ever before. I think another one is more black women are voting than ever before. What are some of the other ones that you see is really big wins?

Erin Loos Cutraro
Sure. A record number of Indigenous women you look at the entire delegation in New Mexico being women of color, you look up and down the ticket this this reality that the the individuals who are elected the women who have been elected are increasingly diverse in the most wonderful of ways. And we won't go backwards from that. We will only move forward from that because with more representation comes more representation because more young girls are looking to these incredible women who were just elected and saying, "Okay, I finally see myself." This moment of electing the first the first female Vice President, and a woman of color and a woman of that represents not one community, but multiple communities will fundamentally change the game. What does

Kassia Binkowski
What does this moment mean for you, Erin? You've been in this work now for more than a decade. And while there's obviously still so much more to be done, we have to acknowledge the incredibly historic moment that we're living right now. By the time our listeners hear this episode, the United States will have sworn in its first female vice president Kamala Harris. What does this moment mean to you?

Erin Loos Cutraro
It means it's just the beginning. That's what it means to me, it means that we have to pause and celebrate the incredible victory that in that historic moment, the importance, the significance of it, we have to sit in that. I'm a big believer that, you know, you have to pause and you have to say, "Okay." I think of all the little girls across the country who are like -

Sabrina Merage Naim
I saw those video, there was these compilations of videos of, you know, the little girls looking at the screen when she was speaking. And I was just beside myself with that, I think it's so powerful.

Erin Loos Cutraro
Rght, and you just see that you see that moment, it is that like aha moments that little girls are having all over the country of, of there being no barrier for them to step into those in their minds. And that's what we need. Look, we're gonna catch up with them, we're gonna catch up with that sense of possibility. But they need that sense of possibility. And they have that when they can see a woman in that position power, it's huge.

Sabrina Merage Naim
And let's call it out, it's particularly the little black girls, the little Indian girls, the little girls that are, you know, from immigrant families that never thought that, you know, that are straddling two cultural lines and never thought that they really belonged here. They do. And this is the exact proof that they needed to see on their screens and in public office to feel like there's a path for them there, too.

Absolutely, and I think too, you know, as you as you hear those stories, I want to commend the Vice President elect and her willingness to speak directly to those girls. Because it makes a difference. I mean, she takes the time to speak directly to those girls and say, "This is this is your path, you can do this." And and that is the leadership of women. You asked do women need to lead with women's issues? What women need to do is show others there is a possibility. And, and I love when I see those moments.

Kassia Binkowski
Do you think that we'll see equal representation in our lifetime? I mean, women represent 51% of the population, they're still less than a third, despite these wins. I mean, we're, there's there's more momentum than ever. Do you think we're gonna see it?

Erin Loos Cutraro
I do. I think that we will, because I think it's a snowball effect. I think that we, we are on a path right now, where we're not going to go backwards from this path. And the increased commitment to building pipeline of women who are seeing what's possible building, you know, building a pathway to move forward. Is, is something that in my time and doing this work, didn't exist in even close to the same way five years ago. And so to me, I mean, look, if you look at the numbers, it's not hopeful and in in some of the projections about what it will take for us to get to true representation in the United States. But we are on the right path. And we're not going backwards.

Sabrina Merage Naim
I want to call out that in 2020. We lost a legend for women everywhere, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, and one of your community members said it so well, "With the passing of RBG I realized it's time to stop depending on other women to lead and take charge of my own equity fight." And I love that and in that same thread, what what do you see as the next glass ceiling that we need to shatter together to really see progress?

Erin Loos Cutraro
I don't see it as one I say it is to look, the obvious answer is let's get to a place where we can elect a woman president here in in the United States. And I think that is important and when that comes - it will come - it will be the symbolic moment and this incredibly important moment for our country. For me, it's about closing this gap in ambition and potential that we see for women and girls still who do not see at the same rate as boys and ultimately men the potential for their leadership in elected office. We have to close that gap. We want every girl in this country, and especially brown and black girls, to wake up and say I can do everything that he can do. Because when we break that anything is possible. And to me that's that glass ceiling we need to break.

Sabrina Merage Naim
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